Dionusia (dionusia) wrote,

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***SCOTUS fangirl Update: I am pleased to report that I now have Toobin's The Nine and Yarbrough's David Hackett Souter: Traditional Republican on the Rehnquist Court in my hot little hands, so (former) Justice David Souter Day will be happening very soon! Fellow celebrants, stay tuned! (And if you have no idea whom this gallant gentleman is, well...I will do my best to fill you in on the reason for our excitations!)

But! While I have been pleased, lo, these many months, to cruise along largely Battlestar-free--small exceptions arising such as when R suggests with a grin that we pay to watch Caprica, which is greeted with uproarious laughter bordering on tears--alas, alack, I have forgotten there are such things as extended scenes in DVDs. Which are to be released tomorrow. Which I'm still at the 'LOL, not buying' stage regarding, and I'm sure will include much more Ron finale hilarity re: what zinke quite succinctly terms as 'Epic Kara!fail', but, oh. I forgot about my heartstrings. My character-lovin' heartstrings that will never cease to move me. And so thanks to fantabulous eugis and my flist for linking me to this:

BEHOLD! (Or Watch again! You know you want to!)

You know, there were not many reasons for my girl to smile in her post-death universe, but look at how she looks at him right there. How she uses that and reaches acceptance of herself. And how she's the only one who could possibly turn him inside out and remake him like that. That's just...pure love.

I feel like I owe MT a fan valentine. And/or a drink. Hard not to feel like he's arguing with Ron's change of plan, eh? Or that Ron's not arguing with the "Six of One" brig scene, or the Maelstrom wing convo, or the end of UB, or Captain's Hand, etc, etc, gah.

You know what this means? I'm totally finishing my Kara space-between mythsplosion whatever now. I always did write better when it was 90+ degrees out. PILOTS FEVER IS UNSHAKEABLE.


Tags: kara insanity, myth is not bad, piloooooooooots!, virulent plagues
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It really is. Michael Taylor has my loyalty 4ever now--though I still don't know that I'd ever watch Virtuality, since, you know, RDM was part of that too. Grr.

ANYWAY, someone told me she is clinging to Lee's "See you around...Kara Thrace," and I have to say this is my new thing. No matter what happened in The Great Betrayal, I have to think Lee will indeed see her again, and knew he would. (Guess at this point I'm taking what I can.)

You know what this means? I'm totally finishing my Kara space-between mythsplosion whatever now.

though I still don't know that I'd ever watch Virtuality

Yes. Understandable! That whole "fool me once" principle. Like I am grateful I do not feel the need to partake of Sci Fi's particular brand of Syence Fyctyn ever again. (Even with all those shark movies I'll miss!)

I am finding it a lot more fun to watch series whose seasons/arcs are already over, so I have some idea of whether or not to bother. I'm really digging the tightly-plotted Dexter, for example. Or novels!

I have to say this is my new thing

I like it! One of the weirdly unsatisfying things about their final scene is that it almost resists closure in a sea of other characters' goodbyes -- Lee has no idea she's leaving, the poof is a surprise, she leaves midsentence -- but the flip side of that is that you're perfectly free to take away from it that their story isn't over. After all, she leaves and comes back all the time. Even beats death!

Yes, I highly approve of this idea. (Either that, or she just popped away to kick Ron's ass for a minute. Either/or.)

I will try to hammer mythsplosion into shape and get less prose-poetry-like, too. Thanks for the support! Pilotsfever forever.
what zinke quite succinctly terms as 'Epic Kara!fail'

What can I say? I have a way with worlds and it is TOTALLY TRUE GODSDAMMIT!


What I really love about the deleted scenes? There's one from 'The Oath' in which Kara exclaims that she's isn't an angel. No. REALLY.
I bow to your eloquence (and I love your icon beyond words). :)

There's one from 'The Oath' in which Kara exclaims that she's isn't an angel. No. REALLY.

NO. WHAT! Seriously?! XD

Genius. And I say this as a person who thought the angel bit would be really, amazingly cool and not necessarily literal over metaphorical. While I see the complaints that they moved too mystical compared to the mini and season one, Kara's ending (quite apart from the Lee relationship) felt unsatisfying to me, but I don't think it was necessarily playing the "God" card that did it per se. There's a group on my flist that's sad they moved away from hard science, but there's an equally large group that's sad they treated that angle so...clumsily/unimaginatively, you know? And after spending so much time building up the mystery of her identity.

OH. POOR KARA. We're in denial too. Pigeon girl of the universe.
I think zinke's talking about this scene

Technically she says she isn't a ghost but...yeah when you listen to it, it's crystal frakking clear that they had no idea even then what they were going to do with her.
Thanks for that! Ah. So funny. You can feel the frustration just radiate off of her. "Frak this. I'm sick of being jerked around by all this special destiny bla bla no-answer bullshit! Lemme go put some BULLETS in something!"

I feel her pain. <3
Oh, Kara. She should have fought and died with the only people she ever cared about. If they wrote it, then they knew that too.


7 years ago

Aw, you're welcome! Glad you enjoyed the scene. ;) It is pure love like you said. ♥


It is. Really. :)
Yes. Season 4 and 4.5 have some deliriously romantic moments, which makes sense when you know the original plan was to pay it off. But at least we will always have this!

This scene has everything I love about them.

And his hand! The way he has to rip it off of her because he can't let himself cross the line!

*goes to take temperature and find an icepack* No use!
Yes, we have this and we can take it from there to wherever we want. We know their story is far from over and I'm sure they will meet again. After all, she always came back to him. Why not now?

I think I will never understand why they decided to make Kara poof away all of a sudden, without any kind of closure -for her, for Lee and everything regarding the mystery of who she really was.

And his hand! The way he has to rip it off of her because he can't let himself cross the line!
Poor Lee, he so wanted to kiss her. I think she would have let him. I love the way she leans into his hand when he tocuhes her cheek. Lee's eyes are so full of love. ♥
The further away I getm the more the whole BSG and Kara/Lee resolution is just so. . . bizarre - like being inside the head of a multiple personality. I mean really? It's just diconnecting that the two very loving people we see here were supposedly in an obsessive/unhealthy relationship or not truly in love.

I do actually wish that they had stuck more to hard science, mostly because they started with that mythic/science combo and I really liked the ambiguity of it, that you could go either way, but I really like mythology. So I stand by the fact that, had the execution been worthy, I'd have had no problems.

Vive la pilots!


July 28 2009, 07:36:26 UTC 7 years ago Edited:  July 28 2009, 07:51:31 UTC

Yeah, I don't get it either! It just ignores so many other things -- especially everything from Maelstrom on. Abstractly I understand from what Katee said that the schizo feeling happened as a result of the writers changing their minds, but it's still so odd. So Ron might think they're always on the table or Kara is just an easy lay or whatever, but that would fail to allow them the character growth we actually saw. So in the end, if anything, to me that flashback showed how far they'd come.

I have to throw up my hands at that. I was prepared for a nice tragic separation, and instead there's a...nothingness. It's like they painted themselves into a corner and just stopped trying. They also apparently think springing the poof on us gives us delicious and challenging ambiguity, but so many more interpretive options are left open to the viewer if she just stays put. They railroad us into a divine-only option but still leave us with crucial gaps in her story. It's not even a "classic resurrection" tale like that of Jesus -- he always knew who he was and knew his own narrative. He had a choice to embrace his destiny or refuse it. Kara never knows what is happening to her, which makes her seem less of a heroine and more like a puppet (and a puppet of a force whose motivations and personality we know nothing of, which goes much farther than even the dei ex machina in classical tragedy).

I do actually wish that they had stuck more to hard science, mostly because they started with that mythic/science combo and I really liked the ambiguity of it, that you could go either way, but I really like mythology. So I stand by the fact that, had the execution been worthy, I'd have had no problems.

Yes, good point. I agree that it's an execution problem more than an idea problem -- whether they had gone with hard science/Cylon resurrection, divine intervention, or just plain leaving that question hanging, I can see how all of those options could have worked. I think a lot of people would have been happier with the way things played out, even if it didn't fit their own wish list, had they just made a few adjustments and carried out some of their choices a little better. Not everything that is "unusual" or "shocking" in narrative is actually good.

But, then again, it might just be because I have cooties that I think this way. I'd better have a lie-down; I don't like to be forced to think. ;)
Not everything that is "unusual" or "shocking" in narrative is actually good.

Exactly. Clever and shocking things only work as a plot twist, not a plot deconstruction. When you dismantle your story arc to such an absurd extent, you lose the ability to effectively shock in the cool, never-saw-that-coming sort of way, because if a plot has no integrity, anything can happen and therefore unusual occurences become par for the course.

Plot twist = Boomer shooting Adama

Plot deconstruction = Turning the genocide into God's Plan

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We are one in this, QoT. We are one. I thought I was all out of fandom and this just sucks me back in. The problem I have with BSG is that when it's good, it's SO GOOD -- and thus when it falls short it has a long way to fall. I mean, I was always able to both snark and squee about this show simultaneously, Lord knows I was aware it wasn't perfect, but I wouldn't have cared so much at all if it hadn't kept giving me amazing moments like the scene above. (The look in their eyes! And the way she steps toward him when he ducks his head and moves away! Man, the writing is great, but the actors really bring it to a whole other level. Guh.)

I just can't make this match up with the flashback end. I know they changed their minds and all, but the finale seems to try to overcompensate to a weird degree. Not only are they not going to pay it off, we'll suddenly learn that they were always dooooomed! And even more horrible people than they were post-UB! And a wineglass will be broken! And a fleet of anvils will drop on a crate of hammers, but we're still looking at the final season as a whole scratching our heads and going "How does that fit? For a long time they haven't been all about the sex and guilt?" It's so bad that people on my flist who don't care at all about them or even actively dislike them together think it was messed up. That's extraordinary -- I don't think I've ever seen my flist unanimous on anything. :)

But, I will always love them. Dang it. Damn pilotes for being so dangereux!

Hold me.
Oh thank you so much for sharing that! Just lovely. Definitely one of my favourite pilot moments. I'm still trying to ignore their ending (but at least in my head Kara totally comes back to Lee and they live happily ever after - it definitely happened!!). ;)


but at least in my head Kara totally comes back to Lee and they live happily ever after - it definitely happened!!)

Hey, if they can use space magic and revisionist history, so can WE. Ha ha.

Glad you liked. :)
Thanks for sharing the clip! I have no desire to put more money into Ron's pocket by buying the DVD. ;)

You're absolutely right - that scene cuts through months of anger and snark and avoidance just like that. Because it's just those two characters and those two actors and the spell they wove. If we could have had more moments like that in the last season... well, I suppose Ron would still have retconned the relationship at the end. But I'd have been a bit happier along the way, right?

Ah, Pilots.
But I'd have been a bit happier along the way, right?

Amen, sister! Their chemistry is so incredible. If only they'd stuck to their UB guns. ;)

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YAY, Souter Madness! :D

Well, I read almost all of the bio by now and my impression of it is that it is a good scholarly tome, solid work...and given Souter's private and reticent nature and the fact that he and his law clerks declined to be interviewed, I'd say he still manages to give readers a good sense of the man -- and he still gets quotes from many friends, etc. Y. does spend a bit of time tracing his life before his elevation to the court, but most of the book focuses on his rulings over the years and painting a picture of his overall judicial philosophy. I'm no law scholar, but as I followed his arguments I appreciated how he put everything in context and his general conclusions make sense (Souter is a "Yankee Republican" in the old style, a judicial rather than ideological conservative, and with his high respect for precedent he thus ended up with a rather liberal record).

Overall I think this book is less gossipy and more cautious (and thus, I think, more likely to be correct) than a book like Toobin's, which is no surprise. They're trying to do two different things. Unfortunately that means fewer juicy details in the official bio, but you do find out about things like the genealogical crackfic jokes (page 191!) and other scattered things like how Barbara Bush tried to seat him by bachelorettes at state dinners but instead of making an effort he'd do things like converse with the wife of a Hungarian diplomat in Latin sitting at his other elbow instead. So, not a total loss. ;) You can use Google books if you want to skim it -- that's how I ran across it.

I reeeeeeeally want to know who Toobin's sources are, though, because their accounts of Souter's role and reaction to Bush v. Gore are so different. Toobin made a big splash proclaiming that the idealistic Souter was left "heartbroken" and despondent by his colleagues' blatant hypocrisy and political partisanship -- so much so that he seriously considered stepping down right then, and sometimes "burst into tears" when he later thought of the case. According to T., close friends talked him out of it. Y.'s book has no such account, though he does note that Souter tried and failed to win over Kennedy into a recount compromise and lamented his failure to do so ("If I had had one more day! One more day!") and also puts a lot of emphasis on the fact that Souter avoided joining the more rhetorically charged condemnations of the other dissenters.

Toobin's story is so much more DRAMATIC I'd almost want it to be true, but Souter's close friend flatly denies the whole thing, and I have to say, it doesn't make much sense that a man who thought the court had become too partisan would step down and make it easier for Bush to swing the court even more in a political direction. Plus, it smacks more than a little of "oh, poor bachelor Souter, the odd and old-fashioned recluse, far too SHOCKED by the ways of the cruel world!" for my taste. Other justices could get over it because other justices have FAMILIES and go to COCKTAIL PARTIES and are thus more cynical and worldly. (OY.) As a serial compromise-broker, Souter seems well aware that judges are people instead of umpires and robots.

That said, my heartstrings are plucked by the thought of him being so distraught. I mean, if I saw my friends and colleagues do that, I'd want to cry and sit in the dark myself. He'd probably need a hug. What do you think?

(PS I have no idea where to get SCOTUS icons but I NEED one! I suppose I will have to make it!)

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I love the gossipy parts too. :) That crackfic section wasn't nearly long enough for me! I did feel like I learned more from the bio, though, as someone outside of the legal field. Plus, it has a "don't overreach your evidence" kind of restraint I can professionally admire. But I'm also really glad I got to read both, because, hello! Gossip is more fun!

It sounds kind of melodramatic in retrospect, but, well, a lot of people thought constitutional law died that day with nearly every justice being pretty damn hypocritical and diverging from what they'd said before about voting rights and states' rights to land on the side of the party you'd predict from their liberal/conservative label. I know of a con law professor who QUIT teaching because of Bush v. Gore, because there was no longer any law, just politics, so what was the point of teaching it to law students?

I should make it more clear that I think being devastated by that is not at all melodramatic, just that T.'s account was more dramatic than Y's, so it raised some red flags with me. This was the big juicy story he was using to promote his book, after all. Yet it is hard to imagine any rational person with respect for our constitution not taking that hard, much less a person who had devoted his entire life to upholding the law. I completely buy the long-term emotional devastation (and maybe also the tears, probably when by himself, on a lonely New Hampshire hillside but it's the resigning part that seemed off. But, come to think of it, if he just contemplated it briefly, it's not that far out.

Maybe it's my imagination, but I really think they do pay attention to who will be appointing their replacements. O'Connor shouted "This is terrible!" at the screen when they prematurely called Florida for Gore, and her husband explained that she stormed off because she was really looking forward to retiring, but with Gore in office, she'd have to stay at least four more years. Just as I think Ginsburg was just willing herself to outlive the bastards when she got cancer, too. (As was I!)

As you point out, he is a centrist. I know he doesn't think of himself as liberal (and he's right), yet in reading his dissents I got the sense he saw more willingness to radically overturn precedent coming from the Regan-Bush justices than he approved of, and he worked very, very hard to moderate that trend. Total speculation at work, here, especially because he has almost no detectible sense of ego, but I think he'd want someone more like himself and less like Scalia to take his place. Scalia was held up by Bush and other neocons as the "perfect" example of the judge he'd like to select (isn't it awful that Souter is always held up as the opposite of ideal and is considered a failure?). I think he's wanted to leave for a long time but only finally felt safe in resigning once Obama was elected. But that's just my feeling after reading the bio -- who knows how accurate that is.

The problem (or the fun, hee) is that there's such huge blank canvas to fill in, we can fill it in almost any way we want to. He's like one of those 18th century novelists who burned all their diaries and important letters, to the despair of biographers forevermore.

I know of a con law professor who QUIT teaching because of Bush v. Gore, because there was no longer any law, just politics, so what was the point of teaching it to law students?

WOW. Understandable, but...so sad. No wonder the other justices never want to talk about it. It's one of the most blatant and shameful things they ever collectively did. It's not even a partisan thing, as you say. They should have refused to hear it. :/

It's so odd it wasn't a bigger scandal than it was, at least to the general public. I suppose if you don't understand the technicalities, depending on which party you fall in, you either accept it as "stolen election" or "partisan screaming"? Depressing in and of itself.

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Part II because I do go on


July 29 2009, 06:19:54 UTC 7 years ago Edited:  July 29 2009, 06:21:31 UTC

Sotomayor, for example, is painted as some wild-eyed liberal but...chances are, she won't be.

OK, since you brought it up -- I have a CRAZY NEED to talk about this because I've worn out everyone else with my incoherent rage-flail around the house. :)

I can't believe how much her image is being distorted, either. Why are they wasting time savaging a moderate? Seriously? They were lucky not to get someone more liberal. I mean, Obama might as well have gone all the way and picked the wildest-eyed commie pinko he could find -- it doesn't matter to the GOP, the playbook runs the same.

I especially like how some senators kept bringing up the fact that the out-of-context and twisted representation of her 'radical racist remarks' seem completely out of step with her actual moderate record. That is DISTURBING! Because there is a manufactured CONTRADICTION here! Ergo she must be a liar, a sneaky, sneaky liar. It enrages me that years of judicial service cannot stand as proof of her impartiality and refute that mischaracterization in and of itself. If her record doesn't satisfy them...what could? We are so far into no-facts-land Bizarroville it's beyond maddening!

Okay, that felt good to let out.

the emperor really isn't wearing any clothes and that's what makes it surprising

No kidding. The way he shamelessly redefines "discrimination based on race" is aasflklsjalgkjmhjl!

(There should be a comm where you can ask for icons in exchange for other things. I will make you a Breyer vidlet in exchange for Souter icons, for example!)

And maybe there could be trading cards! <3 <3 <3 I give you a Thurgood Marshall for your Wendell Holmes!

I will make Souter icons. I've even got a striding-forward "Action Souter" pic to work with!

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Indeed! It is not that easy to forget them and leave shippiness behind. Their end was so tragic. They were finally at a place where they weren't Starbuck and Apollo, CAG and his problem pilots, Major and Captain but just Lee and Kara. They could have had it all but alas certain someone didn't think it was worth the trouble. I gotta love MT for giving us this last bit of treasure before the disatrous end.

I mean we have enough proof to build an easy case against Ron for the ending. If he never intended to give it to us then why bother with SoO and the many other squeeful scenes?

I so glad you'll finish your fic, they deserve justice and since Ron didn't give it to them, it's the fangirls' job.:)

Sorry can't help, I'm still saddened by it all.